Thoughts on using nolva on cycle for dbol cycle to lessen suppression?

I've been reading up a lot on the ol' low dose dbol cycles. 20mg/day upon waking should cause minimal shutdown (but probably more in my case being i get shutdown easily) but still slowly producing solid gains.

I am fully aware that both the dbol itself and especially the oestrogen metabolites can cause suppression. However, I have been wondering whether taking a serm such as tamoxifen/nolva on cycle would effectively inhibit the oestrogen aspect of the suppression. in theory, there would still be the oestrogens circulating around causing the beneficial effects, but since tamoxifen blocks the ER at both the hypothalamus and the anterior pituitary, the 200x more suppression associated with E would be blocked.

E.g. 6 week low dose 20mg/day upon waking, with either 10-20mg/day of tamoxifen throughout should make PCT relatively even easier (if needed) than not taking it on cycle?

I know an AI has also been recommended by some when running dbol, but I am particularly interested in the tamoxifen aspect

thanks for the input guys!

 

Thoughts on using nolva on cycle for dbol cycle to lessen suppression?

i think the benifits if any in terms os supression will be minimal and not wareth its use for that puropse, plus supession from 6weeks dbol isnt that great or too hard to recover from. also the 20mg in the morning for less supression is amyth also, best run your aas as norml and then recover once you finish

 

Thoughts on using nolva on cycle for dbol cycle to lessen suppression?

this is something I've seen very mixed opinion about. Very knowledgable people, far far more than I am, agree and others disagree. Apparently there's a publication in the Lancet in the 60-70s about 10mg/day am causing practically no change in LH over weeks but I can't find it.

 

Thoughts on using nolva on cycle for dbol cycle to lessen suppression?

I may be out of my depth here (we'll soon find out, but I'd like to learn more about this) but doesn't nolva selectively bind to the estrogen receptors in breast tissue, therefore the only use it has whilst running aas or in PCT is to prevent gyno or to reverse the early signs of it coming on. It doesn't play any part in preventing shut down.

Flame me!

 

Thoughts on using nolva on cycle for dbol cycle to lessen suppression?

The male body produces roughly 7mg test a day? I think I've read 10mg dbol will replace your test so surely you'd be shutdown on 20mg.

 

Thoughts on using nolva on cycle for dbol cycle to lessen suppression?

Tamoxifen aka nolva isnt only for breast ER. ''Tamoxifen effectively blocks the ER in both the hypothalamus and anterior pituitary, disrupting the negative-feedback on GnRH and the gonadotropins''

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=c...ed=0CE8Q6AEwBQ

There's lots of evidence to suggest tamoxifen is as effective as clomiphene for getting the ol' HPTA going again

 

Thoughts on using nolva on cycle for dbol cycle to lessen suppression?

male range i read is 2mg-7mg ed,even 10mg replaceing your natty test will still shut your natty test down to replace it if you no what i mean, imo it prob wont cause shuddown but defo some degree of supression lowering your natty test, any increase in hormones will cause suppression, your natural level is your bodies limit, anothing over and it will start to supress you to get that limit back

 

Thoughts on using nolva on cycle for dbol cycle to lessen suppression?

i agree, also info from the 60-70s will prob be far outdated now lol

 

Thoughts on using nolva on cycle for dbol cycle to lessen suppression?

this is what is under a lot of debate. Some very wise people, including one of hte mods here which im trying ot find his quote, reason that depending on the steroid, dose, and timing it might have little to no impact on the hpta. the rational being that the dbol upon waking at a low dose of 10-20mg is effectively mimicing that of the natural test surge in the morning, and because of the half life, it will be gone by the end of the day, and the body will carry on as normal. crudely speaking.

 

Thoughts on using nolva on cycle for dbol cycle to lessen suppression?

depends which info. info on the changes in LH etc.. not sure how they would be discounted though. but some info out there is definitely out of date