Protecting your HPTA on AAS

Ok so in the time i've used AAS i have to say the one side effect that i've always been aware of is "Shut Down" as it can cause a range of issues if you are not careful, and lets face it not being able to have sex with your gf is not a desirable effect. Once you understand how Steroids work it's pretty obvious how shut down happens, there may be people reading this who don't fully understand so i'll briefly explain as it's important to understand this if you are going to be using Steroids. The Hypothalmic-Pituitary-Testicular-Axis or HPTA is almost like a thermostat for central heating except it controls your testosterone levels instead of the temperature of your home, just like in a house when the temperature drops below a certain level it will recognize this with your testosterone levels and correct it. In a nut shell once your body realizes that your testosterone levels are lower than they should be the Hypothalamic region of your brain releases GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone) which in turn signals the Pituitary to release LH (Luteinizing Hormone) which stimulates the testicles to secrete more testosterone.

So that's how it works in an untouched body without Steroids when there is too little testosterone, but just like with central heating if there is too much heat the boiler (production) is switched off. Now the average male produces about 5-7mg's of testosterone per day, so lets say 50mg's per week... so when we shoot eg 500-1000mg per week our bodies recognize this and think "hang on we've got waaaay more than we need" and tests will show that LH levels are severely suppressed as a reaction to the rise in testosterone levels. And with the suppressed LH levels eventually you will get testicular atrophy (shrunken testicles) that produce very little testosterone and in some cases bodybuilders have been so severely shut down after years of steroid abuse that when they eventually do come off even a 300lb male may have less testosterone than a 50lb 6 year old girl, which is pretty scary.

From the research that i've done i've come to the conclusion that using anti-oestrogens as a PCT may not be the most effective way to completely protect your body from shut down. Anti oestrogens do have their uses of course, and in (my) opinion the main use is when on cycle and that's to stop the effects after testosterone has converted to oestrogen in the body, as an example one of the effects would be when the oestrogen binds to receptors behind the nipple and creates breast tissue (gyno). Some people like me prefer to use an Anti-Aromizer when on cycle for example Arimidex which helps stop the conversion in the 1st place rather than stopping the effects of the already converted oestrogen. In a PCT the one arguable benefit of Anti E's is that they can block the negative feedback of oestrogen which can increase LH, however LH actually recovers quite fast when you come off a cycle, it's the testicular atrophy (in my opinion) that is the main issue. Imagine your body sending a normal amount of LH signal to the testes, but they are smaller and inefficient so the signal is not strong enough for them to produce the amount needed, like a broken boiler trying to keep your house at 30.c - even though the thermostat is telling it too, it just can't as it's not running at full capacity.

So to conclude on that - in my time of using Steroids i have noticed that with regular use of Steroids, PCT may not be the best tool to stop testicular shut down but prevention is the best option, i'm not saying that you should not do PCT at all but don't think that it's going to prevent shut down if you are using Steroids a lot. The most useful medication i have come across to prevent shut down is HCG, before i explain this i'd like to say that if it's your 1st cycle or if you just run the occasional cycle eg one 10 week cycle a year it may not even be needed, keep things simple. But for seasoned users or people who cycle often it may just be the best shut down preventive tool available on the market. HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) is a prescription drug used for fertility that mimics the bodies natural LH, if you are shut down we've already clarified that your testes are not reacting as much as they should to your natural production of LH so injecting HCG mimics a massive boost in LH will help towards the restoration and adding of testicular mass until they are back to normal. Or even better, use a small dose of HCG throughout cycle to stop atrophy in the 1st place and if done correctly it will make PCT a breeze.

I've been reading up a lot on this subject recently so thought it may be of benefit, and i'd like for any other people who are knowledgeable on this subject to add to this thread with any preventive measures / drugs that may be of use for this purpose. I remember when i was a bit younger and i had no idea about shut down, i was on cycle for a long time using a high dose of Nandralone or Deca as it's commonly known, i got shut down and i got shut down very badly and believe me it's not good, i had to take about a year off AAS use to get back to normal and i very much doubt i'll want to use Deca again after that experience. Anyway the point of this thread is for people to share experiences of shut down, and what they did to get back to normal. Many people inject steroids and take tabs with no idea of what it can do to the HPTA, most of these will end up in trouble and severely shut down, just like i did before i had educated myself on the subject. Any input from PCT / HPTA experts would be a great addition to this thread.

So, have you been shut down? What did you do to prevent it? What do you know about this subject?

 

Protecting your HPTA on AAS

I've had a few convos with hacks on this...

His power pct works really well, because if you don't using highly suppressive aas like deca will shut you down hard and can take up to a year to bring back naturally

Ausbuilt advises Clomid 50mg eod while on cycle and an ai which he believes stops his balls from shrinking and prevents him shutting down, which is while he has been on a heavy aas cycle for 6 months

Im no master just advising what I've been told, hope it helped

 

Protecting your HPTA on AAS

Yeah, among others Auz and Hackskii would have some good input for this thread, i've emailed them both

 

Protecting your HPTA on AAS

I think unless you going to run hcg through cycle but again even running it through cycle I would still do hacks aggressive pct maybe adding some prov for sex drive at 50mg a day

 

Protecting your HPTA on AAS

I'm thinking about having a long break after this cycle, so maybe i'll be trying out Hacks' aggressive PCT

 

Protecting your HPTA on AAS

i've personally used this pct before after a 6 month cycle of deca, and found it worked really well mate... felt better after a couple of days

 

Protecting your HPTA on AAS

I have been the same. I know my reason - stupidity.

I didnt use hcg on a 12 week test and deca cycle, idea was to cruise for 6 weeks on low dose test, i didnt as put it off and before i knew it the time was up to start blast, now i have started the blast and only just started hcg at 1000iu a week. Silly really considering i knew i shouldnt be doing that!!!!!!

 

Protecting your HPTA on AAS

Realy good post there, i usually cba to read such a long post but it had me interested.
Im just on week 8 of 12 anavar, proviron and prope with hgh cycle, also been doing hcg 3 x ed total of800iu ew.
My nuts still feel full and i know its not the harshest of cycles but i suffer from hypertrophy anyway so its a big deal for me.
Ive just started another thread about DAA about half hour ago, i was thinking of firing this in with my pct to help keep my test in range as it naturally will drop down as i am on trt also cos of low test.

 

Protecting your HPTA on AAS

If i'm honest i've actually neglected shut down prevention recently, and i have noticed some shut down too... the most noticeable / painful recent one was was when a nice girl was asking for anal and after a few beers my dick just wasn't having it! Heart breaking was that, it has happened before that and i need to start being more careful. It's almost like i know what i should be doing, but don't always do it.

 

Protecting your HPTA on AAS

Nice post.

Some things worth mentioning for clarification here.

Leydig cells comprise only about 10% of the mass in the testicles.
Testicular atrophy wont stop even with the use of HCG as FSH is not being sent to the sertoli cells to produce sperm.
Now with the use of HMG, which contains both LH and FSH to me along with some HCG would probably be the best deterrent to testicular atrophy, but, I have not heard of anyone doing that, and the expense probably would not be worth the preventative measure, but no doubt would probably be the best.
Beings that this has never been used, I do not know how effective it would be, nor the complications of the potential for desensitization issues.
Just thinking aloud here.

Keeping estrogen in check on a aromitizable cycle would be a great idea to keep shutdown to a minimum as one of the methods of homeostasis with an aromitizable steroid cycle would be the conversion of testosterone to estrogen, and estrogen is approx 200 times more suppressive than testosterone.

I do not agree that clomid would keep pituitary function, that has been mentioned a lot lately, but nothing suggests it would work, and nobody has any proof it has worked, as androgen's are suppressive in them selves even in light of estrogen being kept in check.
The body will maintain homeostasis and if androgen's are in excess, nothing will force the body to produce endogenous LH except possibly GnRH (which is totally not even practical), and possibly Naltrexone.

Naltrexone sounds like a good drug as both LH and FSH would be working, but from the feedback I have had although it sounds promising, it does not appear effective on tren, deca, and probably some other gears.

Like most things moderation would be key here.
If you are more susceptible to shutdown, choose shorter cycles.
Select gear that is not as suppressive.
Use amounts that get the job done and not rely on gear to do the work for you.
Use an AI if you are using gear that converts to estrogen.
Use HCG throughout, to keep leydig cell sensitivity.
Start your PCT when the gear becomes somewhere at or just below normal base values.

Aside from blood pressure issues, gyno, shutdown is the single biggest thing that turns me off from gear.
I love to use gear, it makes me feel awesome, but what goes up, must come down.
Now, if I was on TRT, that would all be a mute point.